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Yutaka
Hi
i am trying to level a room of 100 sqft and laying 24x24 tile
as i digging through the forum i know the floor has to be dead flat
so i assuming self leveling compound could help
i have tried use LevelQuik RS Self-Leveling Underlayment 22.7kg from homedepot but it's quick dry it's dry up before it can spread out
someone told me use mapei from rona or lowes
MAPEI 50-lb Self-Leveler Plus
my question is
1.the mapei good ? i dont want my floor getting thicker if mapei doesnt work out again
2.different brand of self leveling will have different flatness?
3.please recommend some other brand that easier to work with or have better result
i live in north america homedepot rona lowes are the stores
Thanks
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cx
Welcome, Andy. :)
You do understand that your tiles don't care at all whether your floor is level, they care only that it is flat, yes?
We need to know more about what kind of structure you're pouring your SLC over to know if it even qualifies for a ceramic tile installation.
1. MAPEI products are fine, but there is nothing at all wrong with the Custom products, either. There is also a LevelQuick ES version of their SLC. The E is for extended time. More time to work with it and for it to flow to "self-level."
2. No, flat is flat. Applied correctly, per the manufacturer's instructions, any of the self-leveling products will produce a flat substrate.
3. See #1. And there are other brands out there.
My opinion; worth price charged.
Yutaka
it's a concrete slab i am working on
yes i cannot find any ES version of level quick as homedepot only sell RS one
in my area all the SLC are around the same price 38~43
and level quick actually the most expensive here
i am just afraid if i mess up again with SLC my floor will be higher
so i want make sure everything before i do 2nd time
Tool Guy - Kg
Welcome to the forum, Andy. :wave:
In addition to answering CX's question about what you've got for a structure...
Please describe all the steps you took from prepping to your final pour to see if we can spot any parts that could use help. We're here to help, so tell us what you've got and ask as many questions as you like.
:)
Yutaka
ok this is the steps i will do on my 2nd pour
as cx mention mapei and all other SLC are the same
so i will just get mapei as this is the only one i know that arent quick set and i can get it easy in my area
step
1. get all my area clean and no dust
2. if there is prime for mapei i will use it (not sure if they have )
3. mix it with water as manufacture instruction i think it's 5L water for 50LB bag
then pour it through out the area
not sure what i miss but my question is
1. if i cant find any prime for mapei (is it necessary for me to put before the pour ) or i can use other brand like LevelQuik
2. almost all the instruction not mention how much water need for how much thickness
llike 5L for 50lb is how thick
if i only need 1mm to 2mm?
sorry if my question is dumb
Kman
1. You definitely need the primer. Don't use SLC without it.
2. Most of those products have a coverage chart (Mapei has one here on page 3 (http://www.mapei.com/public/US/products/Self-Leveler_Plus_EN_lr.pdf)). They'll probably all fall in that same range, however, it's better to be safe than sorry. Buy a little more than you need, as long as you can return unopened bags. All the pouring needs to be done as quickly as possible, so you don't want to have to stop and go back to the store for more.
Regarding SLC in general: It's not as simple as mixing it up and pouring it out on the floor. While you don't want to be pushing it all over the place, it does take a little "coaxing" to get it into the right places sometimes. Also, depending on how much you mix up, it might be best to have a helper there to do the mixing while you pour.
The person doing the mixing should start with plenty of water on hand, several buckets, a measuring container for the water, and a set of scales if less than one bag might get mixed at any time.
cx
as cx mention mapei and all other SLC are the same Nope, not at all what CX said, Andy. :) What CX said was: Applied correctly, per the manufacturer's instructions, any of the self-leveling products will produce a flat substrate.
Please pay attention to what Kevin is telling you. And if you can find a manufacturer's video of installing the product it will probably help you a good deal.
Yutaka
Thanks for reply
and about the thickness
if manufacture only list 3mm to cover 48 sqft and 6mm for 24 sqft
is it just a ratio?
so i can do 96 sqft for 1.5mm ?
Kman
That would seem to be the case.
MAPEI - Technical Service
Here is more information on Self Leveler Plus:
http://www.mapei.com/public/US/products/Self-Leveler_Plus_EN_lr.pdf
It does recommend our Primer T before pouring:
http://www.mapei.com/public/US/products/Primer_T_EN_lr.pdf
I would recommend having someone to help you mix, pour, and flatten the self leveler. Even though you're working in a small area, it's usually a two person job. Here are some videos on the topic of self leveling that will help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rxnwWWn9sQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeAwBZ-moFU
Good luck with your project, give us a call if you need any additional info.
nelsonkoehn
I think you may be asking a bit much to only pour 1.5 mm. The slc needs a minimum thickness just for it to 'flow' like it needs to for its leveling action. I haven't worked just a lot with it, but when I have tried going to thin it gave me problems, didn't flatten out. It seems to me that the moisture in a really thin layer gets pulled out very quickly, not leaving time for it to 'level'.
Yutaka
thanks for all the help i will give another try this weekend
ya i might just do min 3mm
hopefully it's 3mm from lowest spot not highest spot
Yutaka
Hi
please help me check the steps for 24x24 porcelain tile isntall with 1/16" of grout line
1. it's first floor of concrete slab and already done SLC (hopefully this is flat enough for 24x24)
2. use CUSTOM BUILDING PRODUCTS FlexBond LFT Crack Prevention Medium Bed Mortar White with 1/2" square notch trowel
3. apply on floor then back butter the tile before putting on
4. using tile level system and put in as in picture
please let me know if i missed anything
and my question is
a. is my thin set good for this job or i should use other one (please recommend)
b. after back butter and put on the floor do press down make sure fully contacted or just leave it so there is trowel line?
since they need good coverage of mortar is it better press down ?
but the trowel line might be gone
the old tile i took out they all have the trowel line
is there any reason of trowel line? like let air circulate?
this is confused me
c. can i apply the grout 2 days after?
Thanks
Kman
Hello, Andy.
Please keep all questions related to this project on this thread. That way all the history is in one place, and questions and answers aren't duplicated.
The standard LFT is about half the price of the crack prevention mortar. Since you're only doing 100 square feet, it's not like you'd be spending a lot extra, so it's really up to you.
Since you're using a leveling system, you don't want to push the tiles in as you set them. Once you get the clips in underneath the tile, they'll be pushed down when you finish with the caps.
Two days should be plenty long to wait before grouting.
Yutaka
sorry kman i am not fully understand
you said tile will be pushed with the levelling system
but isnt the system just level the tile beside wont push down the tiles?
i was wondering about the gap that notch trowel made should be push out or leave it
Kman
You'll want the thinset in full contact with the back of the tile. It doesn't necessarily mean pushing it down as far as it will go. The leveling system will hold the tile at the proper height so that they're all at the same level. That may mean some tile have better contact than others. You can push the tile into the thinset before or after you set the leveling pieces, just understand that the tile will be pushed up or down a little as needed to get them level.
Yutaka
so i bought 5 bags for 200 sq/ft
however i think because i have 4 area need to do
i end up not enough ( thought one extra bag is enough )
so i have a little area not covered as in pic
since it's the corner with low traffic area
1. just put more thin set in that area when i install tile? (24x24 tile with Medium Bed Mortar )
2. buy another bag and fill the spot?
also if the area is no traffic is the flatness matters for the large tile?
Thanks
Kman
Flatness always matters. :)
Probably the cheapest and easiest fix for that little spot is to find you a small bag of floor patch. Make sure it's cementitious and not gypsum-based. You can carefully trowel it over that area. Most of them have only about 15 minutes of work time, so work quickly.
There's really not a scale to your picture, so I don't know exactly how much you'll need, but it doesn't look like much. You can probably cover it with a 10lb bag easily, unless it's more area than I'm thinking.
Yutaka
ok i will buy another bag and fill the spot
kman can you please explain why the flatness in no traffic area matter (i mean 1/8" difference in maybe 1 feet and covered with more thinset mortar )
for my understanding no traffic is like the tile laying on ground before the install they shouldnt break
or the traffic isnt the issue
jadnashua
You need to attempt to achieve 100% coverage on the back of the tile. At least 100% coverage on all of the edges with no significant gaps in the rest of the tile. To keep lippage down, it really helps to have the area quite flat when dealing with larger format tile. There's a limit on how thick you can get the mortar, so the combination of keeping the top flat with no lippage, keeping the thickness of the mortar within reason, and preventing the tile from sinking all point to trying to get the floor as flat as possible prior to adding the tile. It also takes more skill to keep the floor flat when setting the tile if it isn't already.
Yutaka
thanks jim
i am using levelling system so the lippage shouldnt be a big issue
Kman
If you look at the instructions for the leveling systems, you'll see that they still require the floor to be flat within tolerances.
The leveling system is just to fine tune the tile so that there's no lippage, and to hold them in place til the thinset mortar sets up.
Yutaka
is 1/8" 10 feet and 1/16" 2 feet the minimum for the tolerance for 24x24 tile?
anything beyond that wont work for 24x24 tile for sure?
cx
That is the tile industry standard, Andy, and it'll sure help you set those big tiles a lot more easily, lippage control tool or no.
Yutaka
i am just afraid there will be big issue after the tile install (crack )
i check couple area after SLC
they didnt really meet that standard
what's the best way to fix them
Kman
When you say that didn't meet standard, do you mean it's out of plane more than what's recommended?
Yutaka
Ya
I found there is couple spot didn't meet 1/8 2 feet and 1/16 10 feet
Kman
If they're high, they can be ground off, if they're low they can be filled in. This is assuming they're well-bonded to the floor below.
Contact us to discuss your requirements of hpmc low viscosity. Our experienced sales team can help you identify the options that best suit your needs.
Yutaka
i will try my best
will i able to put more thin set when i install tiles for those low and high spot?
Kman
You can, you just need to be careful not to "overfill" using thinset. It's not really made to be built up too thick. For a depression that's more than 1/4", I'd recommend a floor patch that you can spread with a trowel.
Yutaka
can you please recommend the brand for floor patch ?
is premixed ok?
Kman
You don't want to use the pre-mixed stuff in this application.
This one (http://www.lowes.com/pd_360692-70680-7040973021___?productId=3477913&pl=1&Ntt=floor+patch) and this one (http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=3174-1295-0080025&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=1180155&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1) are typically what you'll find at Lowe's.
This one (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Henry-547-25-lb-Universal-Patch-and-Skimcoat-12158/100189852) is at Home Depot, and the one I normally use.
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
I have the Planipatch, in Kevin's link above, on a project right now and it works well. It's my first time using it and I think it's great.
Yutaka
ok thanks i will try to find as i live in canada
doesnt have that many lowes here
Yutaka
what's the best way to grind the high spot
i went to the home depot they said they dont have any tool rental for that
Kman
And angle grinder with a diamond cup wheel. There's grinder you can get pretty cheap, the wheel, not so much.
Yutaka
After few days of grinding and levelling
is 1/8" 4 feet good enough for tile?
and for small area should i cut the tile first and layout instead cutting it while laying ?
Kman
Andy, I don't find the dimensions of the room you're working on in this thread, but since it's 100 square feet, it's likely the room is more than 4' wide in both directions. Since you're setting 24x24 tile, you want the floor to have no more than 1/8" deviation from plane in 10'. It sounds like you still have a high spot or low spot that needs to be addressed.
Yutaka
sorry got few different places
the 100 sq/ft is the kitchen
the washroom only about 25 sq/ft
since the area is small so i only use 4ft leveller check
and the max deviation for 4ft is 1/8"
if that still enough i will keep trying
Kman
1/8" in 4 feet is more than what is recommended. Nothing says you can't tile over it, but you're just more likely to have problems getting the tile to stay flat, and can often lead to lack of good mortar coverage.
The flatter the floor, the easier time you'll have setting large format tile over it.
Yutaka
what's the minimum for 4 ft
i will keep doing the grinding until meet the requirement
as i am not a pro tile guy i want easier to lay them
and should i cut them first as i have many cut in small room afraid the thinset gonna dry up
Kman
If all I had was a 4' level to check for flatness, I'd probably want it to be within 1/16" or less.
You could cut your tile as you go along, or if you want you could lay all the full pieces in one day, the come back the next day to do the cut pieces.
On the second day, you could cut all your pieces, lay them in place without thinset, then after they are all cut, mix up thinset and set them in place. I've done it that way a number of times to reduce the chance of thinset drying up before I get to use it.
Yutaka
thanks alot
thought i have to have everything done in one day
if i do them in 2 different day
for the thinset part can i do half of bag and mix half the water that as instruction says?
like one bag is 50lb mix with 5.2L to 5.75L water
i go 25 lb with 2.5 L?
Kman
You can mix as much or as little as you want, as long as you keep the powder-to-water ratio the same.
What you might also want to look at is the instructions for your leveling system, if there are any, regarding what steps to take when you stop in the middle of a project. Because you would be coming back to pick up the next day, the tile will be more or less set and not adjustable, so in most cases you wouldn't leave the leveling clips in place.
I use the LASH system and when I'm finished for the day, I remove any clips that I haven't used, and the next day I start laying tile, I don't use the clips for the tile adjacent to that last row. I think the Tuscan Leveling System recommends to take the straps out, but replace them the next day.
Yutaka
for the kitchen
what's the best way to do
lay the tile after the kitchen cabinet or before install the cabinet
Kman
I prefer to install tile before the cabinets. It solves a few other problems, like the height issue for your dishwasher, and makes a much cleaner look than tiling up to the cabinets.
Additionally, if at some point in the future you decide to change the layout of the cabinet, you don't have to worry about having to add/remove tile to make it fit.
Yutaka
thanks kevin
i have read other post about fusion pro grout
still not sure is good or not
are those no seal require better?
Kman
In my opinion, any product that doesn't require maintenance is worth it.
Fusion Pro, like epoxy grouts, do require more effort to install and clean up. But the extra amount of time and effort spent is less than what you'll spend re-sealing after the initial coat of sealer has worn off.
Same goes for the cost. The epoxy grouts and others like them do cost more, but it's a one-time cost, and since you don't have to buy expensive sealers every few years, you're really saving money in the long run.
Yutaka
what's the height people usually do for the baseboard tile in bathroom
Thanks
Kman
It's whatever height you want it to be. No rules.
Yutaka
after finished kitchen and laundry room
i have entrance and bathroom left
i am just wondering am i able to tile all the way from entrance into the bathroom by putting a big 24x24 under the bathroom door ? or i should at door size tile (wont look good tho )
as i saw there was wood before i pour the SLC ( now it covered with SLC)
just dont want any issue in the future
Kman
Andy, I'm not understanding what it is you're asking. Maybe you could reword your question and post a picture of what it is you're asking about.
Yutaka
sorry about that
in the picture the red area originally was wood (all others are concrete slab)
now it covered with a layer of SLC
just want make sure i can just put a big 24x24 right on top of it and wont have any issue in the future
cx
Andy, I don't see that we have any information on the construction of that floor. How did you end up with two concrete slabs (SOG I'll presume) separated by wood framing?
And you poured only a very thin layer of SLC across both concrete areas and the wood framed area, too?
Yutaka
i am doing the entire apartment and all the place are concrete slab
just this door they separate by wood
yes only red area was wood inside and outside of that door are slab
yes only thin layer of SLC
as this is my first time tile not sure if that's ok to do it
however before i the SLC these places are tiles too ( 12x12 )
and now i am putting in 24x24
not sure if i can just put right no top of that red area
cx
If you were to put a geographic location into your User Profile, Andy, it might be helpful in answering some of your questions.i am doing the entire apartment and all the place are concrete slabIs this a ground floor or above?
Without more information on your floor construction, I'd say absolutely not ti try to simply tile over that threshold. You must provide at least a single movement accommodation joint and that would actually require some sort of crack isolation membrane covering at least the width of a full tile on both sides of the doorway. At least. If you can provide more information, my opinion could change, but I doubt it.
My opinion; worth price charged.
Yutaka
sorry for the miss info
it's first floor of apartment
and concrete foundation but wood framing
the wood might be the door only ? nothing to do with the joint? because all other area are slabs
originally was tiled over that's why i never have this concern when i start
but the tile was small one 12x12
now i am putting in 24x24
i afraid of crack in future
if i need put membrane what's the best way to fix it now
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